Chris Lang vs Dave Rosenthal Part 2

The conversation continues, who is right? We both are.

If you missed the first round of comments between Dave Rosenthal and myself, Chris Lang, read it.

Before you read Dave’s next reply, I want to point out: I get a 50% opt in rate to my newsletter from my social bookmarking sites. I get a 20% sales rate from my newsletter subscribers. If you sell any product on the Internet you can do the same, you just need a some wickedly evil social marketing tactics.

Dave Rosenthal Replies…

Good, this is a nice opportunity to confirm you truly believe in this method. I think it has merit too-but I also think there’s a MUCH easier way to get pinpoint accurate traffic via ranking.

Now Chris, you know I didn’t say “How can you say that Digg traffic is crap traffic.” Many people DO say that, but I said “writes the KIND of piece that is going to get dugg like some crap.” (By the way can I suggest you link to the original so people can see my exact wording). With the meaning being digg has a very specific readership, all the Social Networks have a “flavor,” and it has been shown time and time again that certain kinds of pieces get dugg. The only way to circumvent the standard norm is for one of the top people to proclaim a piece diggworthy. You can target relevant people all you want, but if ceiling fans aren’t what the top guys are into that’s the end of that story. And backlinks don’t really come out of this strategy UNLESS it’s a digg like story-this week it was something about a 13 year old, and it was a FALSE story but a perfect example of what gets dugg.

The fact that you sold books IS proof. It’s proof that people are grabbing at things in a chase for money. No offense to you or them because I’m in there too. But you and I know the truth; people are trying to crack this internet money code. Somebody comes out with a can’t miss formula and it’ll sell. When you’ve got 20 testimonials of people who used your strategy (step by step), and only your strategy then let’s sit back and look over the facts. But people buying nails, wood, and a hammer doesn’t mean they’re going to have a new deck at the end of the day.

As for “owning terms” be careful what you wish for. There are people who can take it. And you could do a Google booboo yourself and Google can take it from you too. Never say never…

As for some kind of competition. I’m not sure my point was clear. I didn’t say “any” term. I said “but I assure you I can write a piece and have it show up in Google on the first page in the number 1 position 5 minutes later. But it has to be a very specific wording, AND it might not stay there AND it may or may not have anything to do with the rest of my site AND that post is not going to raise the rest of my site to page one position 1 for whatever my site is about”.

Getting ranked is not hard for just some random term-maintaining that rank IS the difficult part. You pick your own term and take a screen. I haven’t written anything for my blog this week because I’m building ebay sites. But whatever I end up writing about I’ll take a screen as no.1 and you take your screen. Or I’ll send the Google search string. It’s not hard; you can do it, I can do it. I don’t think it’s much of challenge because my statement wasn’t about choosing a deeply embedded power term like “make money online.” In fact now that I look up at your post you said the exact same thing “The thing is that major terms are hard to get into.”

But the fact that you’re getting ranking, traffic and conversion from a digg-based phrase proves my point. I said “So I think your method has a very specific use. I’m not sure yet if a) it’s going to generate relevant traffic that will b) turn into revenue for anything more than a few digg skewed industries.” And that would be you.

Like you said, it’s good to have somebody play conterpoint. People didn’t believe I could take a site from 2.5 million in Alexa to 146K in 3 months with the same traffic but I showed ‘em. People didn’t think I could turn 10 cents a day into 100 dollars a day with Adsense in 3 months but I showed them too. So I look forward to the results of those 7 buyers. I can wait. I think you and I are in it for the long haul.

Thanks for the shout-out Rocque!

Chris Lang says…

Dave, I think you missed my point and that was that after Malathy said social bookmarking does not work for her, I proved it could. By pure chance this converted into sales for me.

Malathy’s site has 0 PageRank, 7,183 incoming links, most of them from other sites on Blogger with 0 PageRank.

Plus I did this with a blog post that did not use the term “how to get more Diggs” in the title tag or anywhere on the page.

This made it even harder for me, but I did what I said I would do. This is definitely NOT how it is done.

This is definitely how I tell my readers on my blog and in my book “This is NOT how to do this.” I simply set out to prove that even though she had been doing it wrong, that it could be done right with very little to work with.

I said that:

  • I could get Malathy 100 to 200 Diggs (I get her 100).
  • I could get her ranked #1 (we made it to #4).
  • I would prove that social bookmarking sites work for you if you do it right.

I brought home everything I said I would, that is all I set out to prove.

She got 11 comments, most of her posts have none. I got her a couple hundred visitors to the post. She was posting her own content to Digg and getting O Diggs. I believe that Google sees that as a negative indicator. She has 102 on this post now.

As far as future testimonials go, they will be posted on the salesletter page in the weeks to come.

As far as a competition for rankings goes, I still say we have to both sign up to a new blog on Blogger. No age of domain, no incoming links, no current RSS subscribers and a term that has no competition. Our two blogs current blogs in a competition is apples and oranges. It cannot be compared.

I can help you too…

Also I am looking for a site (must be a blog) that has a product, a current PageRank, a newsletter and all the correct pieces in place. I will take that site to the top of a term they target and it will convert if they have the pieces that are required in place. This will be my next test. Testing and results bring me sales, I figured that out on Friday.

The bottom line

The strategies I used work real well on sites that use them the correct way, build targeted friends lists with like interests and submissions, and not just Digg spam.

I use 15 different social sites that I actively participate in, post valuable content to and comment and rate others posts, that is how it is done right. My book simply teaches you how to get more positive votes and turn your friends into subscribers and buyers.

Where is the Digg spam in that? BTW I do not have a Digg account, either.


  1. Posted June 26, 2008 at 9:22 am | Permalink


    I have a lot of respect people like you who test and prove their theories. I’ve had good success for clients with the social marketing, but I consider myself to still be a novice with a lot to learn.

    Keep up the good work,


  2. Posted June 26, 2008 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Doug, I am nothing if not a teacher. Thanks for your vote of confidence.